The latest on the NJ Drunk Driving (DUI-DWI) Alcotest hearings.
Oct 24th, 2007 | By Michael L. Saile, Jr., Esq. | Category: Blogs, DUI-DWI-DAI (Drunk Driving)Yesterday, Special Master, Michael King, heard final arguments from all the NJ DWI defense counsel and amicus curiae (friends of the court) in Camden, NJ. There will be no further testimony in to be heard by Judge King.
Today, the Office of the Attorney General and the manufacturer of the Alcotest 7110 will argue their side of the case.
Following the arguments, Judge King will prepare a report with his recommendations to the New Jersey Supreme Court. Judge King’s report is due to the NJ Supreme Court by November 2, 2007.
The Supreme Court will then scour the report, and if they choose, hold more hearings, require additional briefing, or just decide the case on the reliability of the Alcotest machine. The New Jersey Supreme Court will be taking this matter very seriously as it will immediately affect tens of thousands of NJ DUI-DWI cases on hold and possibly hundreds of thousands of NJ DUI-DWI cases in the future.
Just think, the old Breathalyzer machine was 1950’s technology and it is still being utilized in NJ NJ DUI-DWI cases today.
If the Alcotest machine is approved, how long do you think it will be used in NJ? Why not use a DUI-DWI blood test like Pennsylvania and many other states are using?
The author of this Law Blog, Bucks County PA & Mercer County, NJ criminal attorney, Michael L. Saile, Jr., Esq. of Saile & Saile LLP, Attorneys-at-Law practices both New Jersey and Pennsylvania criminal, traffic violations, and DUI/DWI/DAI law. Check out our website for DUI penalties. We handle all NJ Municipal Court cases including DUI in the following NJ Municipal Courts: Hopewell Township, Ewing Township, Trenton, Lawrence Township, Hamilton, Pennington, and other Mercer County, Burlington County, and Camden County, NJ courts. We also handle lower bucks county DUI and traffic violation cases in the following towns: Bensalem, Southampton, Richboro, Newtown, Levittown, Langhorne, Doylestown, Warminster, Trevose, Feasterville, Warrington, Bristol, Fallsington, Morrisville, Yardley, New Hope, Holland, Washington Crossing, PA, and other Bucks County courts. We handle DUI cases in Philadelphia, Bucks, Chester, Delaware, and Montgomery County, PA. We are located just outside of Philadelphia in lower Bucks County.
I think they are a week behind schedule.
Is there any press at all in the court room? I am really anxiuous to know what the arguments were and how they went.
If the NJ Supreme Court rules the Alcotest is reliable based on all the CHUn hearings and trial, and documents, does that take away a defendants right to bring up addtional arguments and take it al the way top the Supreme Court?
As I said, because breath to blood is 2100-1, and they basicaly are using the theory that blood has a specific gravity of 1 (although not really true)
They Alcotest would need to be calibrated with an Ethanol solution that has a concentration of 0.000005% EtOH. To match the signal response of a breath sample that would have a calculated BAC of 0.10%.
This is the data drager refuses to give us, reproducibility and linerarity at this level.
because of flucuation at that low level attenuation of the signal, the instrument may not meet standard performance standards.
the only way to know is to see the raw data.
i wish i could draw a picture of what i mean on here.
this is just one of the many concerns i have.
I think if it is approved it will be in use for the next 50 years. Unless someone can challange it , sucessfully, on the analytical side.
The tension is building on me now, the stress and anxiety is building because my 11th court appearance over 789 days is coming up soon.
I do not belive i am going to get a fair trial, based on the fcat I have been treated so unfairly over this long time.
If the prosecutor trials the case on my next appearance, based on obersvations only, as he cliamed he would do during our last appearance, even though I should win the case based on the facts, I feel i will lose the case and get 60 days in jail, ( based on how i have been treated so terribly so far). I wont even be able to fall back on Chun to possibly save me, because the BAC would not be introduced as evidence.
Why wasnt I trialed over 2 years ago? considering the prosecutor is moving forward without a BAC, before Chun is decided.
The two years of streess and anxiety has destroyed my life.
I should have been trialed shortly after January 10, 2006, when the NJ Supreme Court ordered the State to proceed to trial. I would have had to only make only one court appearance thus far. The prosecutor had a free pass to enter the BAC number without challange, and I would not be suffering from the severe stress and anxiety over the prosecuiton that is hanging over my head.
We would of had a chance to question the officers, put forth a defense, and possibly win the case way back then.
I am thinking, on so many levels, it is not right that the State ignored the NJ Supreme Court Order.
There is absultuley nothing on record in my case to date. No arguments of any kind by the State to the judge that would explain this 26 month delay.
In all of my research on here about breath testing for alcohol, everyone agrees it provides only an ESTIMATE of BAC.
However the NJ Statute for DUI does not use the word ESTIMATED BAC at 0.08. It says BAC at 0.08.
Right there there is no way the Alcotest can meet the statute.
Now, to take it further, not only is a BAC result from the Alcotest an estimate, it is a bad estimate that can not be proven in any way shape or form as it stands on this day.
“Why not use a DUI-DWI blood test like Pennsylvania and many other states are using?”
Mr. Saile, you just hit the nail directly on the head. Sometimes I think everyone gets so caught up on the accuracy of this machine, that the bigger picture is ignored. If there is a fail-safe way of testing actual BAC by drawing a quick vial of blood, shouldn’t the breath test be used as an initial indicator as it is in PA, no matter the cost to the state? I agree with Jim’s assessment in an earlier post, pass the cost on to offender’s with a proven BAC over .08, and the state eats the cost if the person tests lower. Why is Pennsylvania able to understand this and NJ isn’t? Sometimes this state baffles me. I think the citizens are so overworked and busy with their everyday lives that they don’t realize how far this state has strayed from being fair, moral and righteous. Laws are no longer passed for the betterment of society, only to pad pockets and justify appointed government positions.
Jim, is this the apparatus that they used to test you when you received your DUI?
Mr. Saile, If the results of these proceedings are to throw out the antiquated technology and conclude that their results are invalid and unreliable, wouldn’t that void all of the pending DUI cases that are being based upon the results of this apparatus?
Kevin:
The NJ DUI-DWI Alcotest proceedings are not to throw out the old breathalyzer test results.
The proceedings are to verify the accuracy of a new breath test machine called the Alcotest. NJ Police started using this machine a few years ago without getting it approved by the NJ Supreme Court. The accuracy of the machine must be verfied for the results to be admitted in court.
I’m sure Jim (on this blog) would give you the whole history the this endeavor or he may call it a debacle.
There is so little press coverage on the proceedings overall that it is impossible to tell what is really happening on a day to day basis in the case.
I have written so much, well over 150 posts on here, I really do not know what more I can say.
Kevin, yes, the Alcotst is the instrument I was trested on. This makes mu argument for speedy trial and due proceess violations even more stronger.
The NJ Supreme Court wrote an ORDER on January 10, 2006 , mentioing this device, lifting a stay on trials in middlesex couinty, and ORDERING THE STATE TO PROCEED TO TRIAL.
THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION FOR WHY I HAVE NOT HAD A TRIAL AFTER 11 APEARANCES AND 789 DAYS!
Mr. Saile, how long do you think a DUI trial like mine will take once it is started?
I would think a single minded defense attorney, determined to argue every possible angle and point, could draw it out over more than several court sessions.
Howver, I am thinking it will be fast in my case, two hours of actual trial.
Each side basicaly getting an hour to argue the crap out of it.
Thew only impact this over 2 year delay in getting a trial has caused, is me to have overwelming stresss and anxiety concerning the prosecution and trial.
I was uncalled for, unecessary, and contempt of the new jersey supreme court. and overall contempt by the state of the us and nj constitutions!
This is really an outrage.
The Court starts at 6pm. The prosecutor comes out at 6pm, gives a fairly long speech, and then goes throw the roll call twice. Firs ttime guilty or no guilty, the 2nd time what he can do for you. That takes to about 7pm if things are running good.
Then between 7 and 8 the judge accepts the guilty and the pleae deals, looks at insurance cards, and the prosectuor is in the hallway meeting with defendats telling them individually what he said in his begining specch, that he cant do more then what he originally said. This process takes the court to about 8pm to 8:30pm.
Then at 8:30 pm, a DUI trial can start. The Judge I am sure will take a short break, come back and set the ground rules. The Officers will be called questioned and cross examined. Hopefully my attorne will make all th epre trial motions and arguments i want made as well.
I think ths whole process could go to about 11pm.
This is also assuming my defense does not have the witnesses i am requesting. Fuield Sobriety expert, memory pscologist, officer form the other town, and if it goes past chun, every state police officer who signed a alcotest document ( as it looks like the justices are overturning crawford in chun).
If the Alcotest evidenbce is introduced, and Chun is not over, then we will have the right to come back and continue the trial for a reliability hearing, at which time i would want to be my own expert witness as to the analytical arguments.
This is a basic right we as US Citizens have.
So what, I want a trial.
If 11pm is past the Judges bedtime, then hold the thing at 2pm, as a special session.
What can I do? I have a right to a trial, and speedy trial, and a fair trial.
If they cant trial cases they shouldnt be arresting people!
I am learning about the appeal process in prepartion for my trial.
If the prosecutar introduces the BAC. I will get a reliability hearing at some point. I will testify in detail about the analytical validity , and I will appeal all the way to the highest court possible on each level.
This fight is important, and if the Chun defense team and no one else is going to make the argument, why not me. I wil make the arguments! I know what I am talking about on the analytical side and what is needed.
Because of the long delay in my case, no settlement is possible. Each pary must roll the dice and do what they must, what they will, and hopefully what is right.
The advatage goes to the State, clearly.
However, there is still a chance i will be able to make the arguments i am talking about, as i have had ample time to prepare, an overabundance of time to prepare.
The State will roll the dice, the court will the dice, defense attorney will roll the dice, and i will roll the dice.
I am very upset over the delay, and have every minute of everyday to focus on arguments , defense, research, procedure, and have everything to gain and absolutley nothing to lose.
It is because the advantage clearly goes to the State in a DUI prosecution, at any time , the delay caused by the State, now over 2 years, makes no sense at all.
(the prosecution would not dare accuse a defense attorney of improper/ilegal influence .. and i do not have knowledge of any such influence , nor was a party to it. The Judge , calling me into Court 11 times, appearantly expected a trail, as did I, each time I went to court).
I am left here to speculate of many levels of philosophy as to the delay.
Do they want my analytical argument to hit the fan?
I will not be talking about one or two minor analytical arguments. I am talking about a full war against the Alcotest. You can read my posts, search then for my analytcial arguments.. and not there are two pages on the blog site, one area has 62 comments on one thread.
I am telling you, i can and will rol the dice as to “every possible aspect” I can.
I have written a book, about my situation, on here.
Mr Saile, want to go 50/50 on the rights? lol
I’LL GATHER ALL MY POSTS, REWRITE IT INTO A READABLE BOOK FORM, AND CALL IT –
THE DUI ALCOTEST PROSECUTION FROM HELL, LOL
I think one of the basic points here is that the State has absolutley no reason not to go go trial, let me make my arguments through an attorney, and lets the chips fall where they may.
Why does the State feel it necessary to ignore the NJ Supreme Court, cause me 26 months and counting of ever increasing stress aND ANXIETY, over som ething they could have prosecuted long long ago.
It really makes no sense. Why am IA TREATED LIKE THIS?
What happens if the test was administered without the recommended breath temperature sensor?
Donna,
If the NJ Supreme Court rules that the new Alcotest machine needs certain modifications to be deemed accurate under NJ law, then your test results could either be thrown out all together or reduced to a lower level. We are all waiting to see how the NJ Supreme Court decides this issue.
Donna,
TAHAT STATE CAN AND WILL TRIAL YOU BASED SOLEY ON OBSERVATION EVIDENCE …maybe
Donna, how long have you been waiting for a trial?
I have been waiting for over 26 months, my constitutional rights and civil liberties stripped from me, over a low level first offense DUI.
What about the people who have already been convicted with this Alcotest 7110 machine, if you were tested on this machine you know the judges decision was influenced because he knows you failed this test and the Alcotest 7110 machine when I took it was malfunctioning a lot, I had to take the test 6 times and the police officer said something was wrong with the machine. You cannot get a fair trial once a judge knows you supposedly failed the test. Anyone who was convicted when this machine was used should be aquitted due to reasonable doubt, unless they were clearly drunk on their ass. In N.J. conditional work licenses should be permitted due to reasonable doubt. The Alcotest 7110 machine was supposed to be state of the art and the best machine ever, I wonder how people have been misconvicted in the past with the old breathalyser machines ? The people who willingly took the Alcotest 7110 and were not clearly drunk should be given some some kind of help due to reasonable doubt. Also the roadside sobriety tests are designed for failure and nobody does them perfectly not even the police officers and they lie about the scoring and results anyway, they use these tests as ruse. Anyone who took the Alcotest 7110 machine and was forced to go to trial should have their cases aquitted. These cases never should of been allowed to go to trial until the Alcotest machine was completely proven to be reliable.
John,
You make a good point. If the results are deemed unreliable on the Alcotest machine (without modifications) and the NJ DUI case was decided or plead guilty soley in reliance of the Alcotest results, those cases should be overturned.
Possibly a post-conviction relief act matter.
I would be interested to know how many of those cases using the Alcotest machine were prosecuted to trial or plea before the NJ Supreme Court ordered the stay.
According to the N.J. Supreme Court ruling in January 2006 from what I read the judges in N.J. were allowed to look at Alcotest readings along with the sobriety test results, but even if the Alcotest readings were eliminated from the evidence the judges know you supposedly failed the Alcotest unless you refused to take the Alcotest. If a defendant was not charged with refusal to take the test and was charged with dui the judge knows the defendant must of failed the Alcotest and that would lead to the judge becoming partial when he looks at the sobriety tests and a defendant could not get a fair trial. Some kind of plea bargain should be offered such as reduction in suspension, a conditional work license or even aquittal due to reasonable doubt if the Alcotest is proven to be unreliable. This would also help the courts from getting back logged.
John,
Only the NJ legislature (the law makers) can create a work license or some kind reduction of suspension. This would be a change in the NJ DUI-DWI law.
Law makers are under pressure to make the laws stricter for DUI-DWI cases.
The fact is that all DUI trails should have taken place!!!!!
The NJ Supreme Court ordered them to procced to trial!!!
After trial, if any finding of guilt is based in whole or in part on the BAC from the alcotest, the Judge can not impose sentence until Chun is decided and the defendant comes back for a reliability hearing.
AS I see it , and as the NJ Supreme Court sees it, a persons right to trial is important, and I deserved to have one a ,long long time ago!!!!
If it was the intent of the Court to not hold a trial, why have I been called into court 11 times over 789 days!!!
I went to court everytime expecting a trial, and the Stae refused to trial my case, ignoring my constitutional rights and the NJ Supreme Court Order.
It is of no advantage to me or the Stae to not have had th epolice officers testify in my case in January of 2006, ….. then call me back one time for a reliability hearing. This is what the NJ Supreme Court Ordered.
It is a great disadvantage to me to have not had a trial back in January of 2006!
The prejudice against me was great in this case and I have suffered greatly with stress and anxiety all because i did not get a trial when they were ordered to give me one, or yet to this point.
Not to mention all 4 elements or barker.
Just the fact that theS tate thinks they can get away with ignoring the NJ Supreme Court is alarming to me and it should be alarming to everyone in NJ!
It is a bigger issue than just me not being allowed to have a trial…
The issue here is the State’s complete disregard and comtempt of a NEW JERSEY SUPREME COURT ORDER!!!!
I have court wednesday, and whatever happens, the NJ SUPREME COURT is going to hear about my case and i would think then investigate what i believe was widespread disregard for their ORDER OF JAN 10 2006!
My attorney is probably going to resign from the case wednesday, leaving me holding the burden to defend myself.
This would be totally wrong and i will talk about it the rest of my life , its fraud, larcency, and breech of contract.
I just do not understand why it had to go like this.
I expect, as should everyone, that NJ SUPREME COURT ORDERS ARE FOLLOWED!
Mr. Saile, pleaee answer this if you can…
If the NJ Supreme Court Orders the Alcotest is reliable, and one of the Chun defense attorneys appeals to the US Supreme Court, as he has said he would do, … will there continue to be a STAY on sentencing?
Jim I do agree with you about the fact that everyone has the right to a speedy trial and I thought if your case did not go to trial within two years it had to be dismissed. Also I agree
with Evan Levow when he told the Supreme Court you can`t convict anyone on FST Observations alone, he told the Supreme Court you need both
the Alcotest and the FST Observations unless the defendant refused to take the Alcotest.
Also if you bring an expert in to challenge the Alcotest the courts intensionally postpone the case and financially break your back, the expert gets their $10,000.00 dollars everytime they have to come to court. If the Alcotest is proven unreliable this has created a conundrum and special circumstances apply and plea bargaining should be allowed. It is not the defendant`s fault if the Alcotest is unreliable and the Alcotest also could of proven that the defendant was innocent but now if the Alcotest is unreliable the defendant has been denied of some evidence that could of proven that they were not guilty and that should be considered reasonable doubt.
John, I completely disagree with you….
Trials are a fundamental right for everyone!
if there are problems with the law, the courts will handle it, .. but they can not handle anything unless there is a trial!
It has been very un nerving to face 11 court appearances over 789 days, expecting a trial each time, and getting sent home each time becuase the State fails to trial the case, the State fails to obey the NJ Supreme Court.
It is more than un nerving on many levels of thought, it has driven me into deep depression!
if a police officer thinks I was DUI, arrsted me, and charged me with DUI, The State needs toi present the case and get it over with… this is what the NJ SUpreme Court Order ordered to happenm.
I could of moved to florida 2 years ago, after a trial, and only beren called back to NJ one time for a rleiablitiy hearing, and sentencing if guilty!
It was economicaly not feasable to move to florida and fly back 11 times to NJ just to be sent home!
What the State has done was wrong and ilegal , and my arguments will be heard, mark my word!
Jim I think you are misinterpreting my comment or you misread it, you should of had your trial a long time ago otherwise your case should of been dismissed and I totally believe you about the stress and depression that this is causing you and I do not think it is fair. Your constitutional rights are being violated.
JOhn, I am not not even talking about a speedy trial, I am talking about a trial, due process, … I have a RIGHT TO A TRIAL PERIOD.
tHE LITIGATION IN CHUN SHOULD BE ENOUGH TO WHERE I WONT NEED A N EXPERT WITNESS AGAINST THE ALOCTEST, IF I DO , i CAN CERTAINLY BE MY OWN EXPERT WITNESS, AS I AM AN EXPERT ANALYTICAL CHEMIST.
The point I am making is that my case shoul dhave went to trial . period. as the NJ Supreme Court Ordered it to be!
i do not need an expert to challange the Alcotst, all that has been going on tfor over 3 years in th eSupreme Court.
What I need is th epolice officers on the satand testifying as to the stop, the arrest, and the obsevations!. period.
Themn, after Chun, come back for a reliability hearing – th eNJ Supremme Court Order was clear on this.
Yes, I have a speedy trial cliazm, I alsop have a due process claim – whats the F is my trial?
Even if i get a trial on Wednesday, i am still goijg to argue that I should have had a trail in january of 2006!
I am going ot bring every argument and charge I can
John, I was refering to your posts of Nov 9.
yes, people convicted on the Alcotest in 2003, 2004, and part of 2005, are basicaly screwed, cause they already served there sentences, paid their fines, and surcharges.
However, people like me, who were arrested in september of 2005 for a first offense DUI, and the NJ Supreme Court, having lifted the Stay on trials inmiddlsex county in Jan 10, 2006, and ORDERED THE STARTE TO PROCEED TO TRIAL, all should have had trials long long ago.
You have a point with peiople in 2003 and 2004!
But you do not have a point inmy case.
I have the NJ Suipreme Court on my side.
It does not matter what
Mr Levow thinks, Mr Reisig, Mr Sachs or Mr Menzel, what matterts is what the NJ Supreme Court Orders!!!!!!
No one has the right to take away my rights , especialy after the NJ Supreme Court Ordered them enforced. Not the State and Not defense attorneys!
How many times should i be forced to face the stress and anxiety of court and a trial, without ever getting a trial, for a first offense dui, even after the nj supreme court ordered the state to proceed to trial on jan 10, 2006?
11 appearances over 789 days has got to be ilegal!
Whats going to hAPPEN IS ON WEDNESDAY, MY ATTORNEY IS GOING TO QUIT, AND THE STATE IS GOING TO WANT TO PROCEED TO TRIAL…..
I AM GOING TO BE LEFT ASKING THE JUDGE FOR A PUBLIC DEFENDER AND ARGUING MY ATTORNEY DID NOTHING FOR 26 MONTHS AND QUIT BECAUSE HE IS NOT PREPARED TO TRIAL THE CASE!
I AM GOING TO WIND UP PRESSING LARCENRNEY CHARGES AGAINST MY ATTORBHNEY, RPC CHARGES, AN D FILING LAWSUITS AGAINST THE STATE AND MY ATTORNEY.
IT DID NOT HAVE TO BE LIKE THIS… ALL THEY NEEDED TO DO WAS GIVE ME A TRIAL IN JAN OF 2006 AS THE NJ SUPREME COURT ORDERED THEM TO DO
IS THIS NOT MESSEED UP?
Jim, bad news this article was in today`s Daily Record.
Accuracy counts most
Drunken-driving test passes muster
Friday, November 16, 2007
Post Comment
Any lingering doubts about the Alcotest device for detecting drunken driving are slowly being put to rest. A judicial report has found that the device, which is replacing the Breathalyzer, is reliable. The state Supreme Court still needs to approve the report, but chances are it will.
The report faulted the Breathalyzer, which had been the standard for drunken-driving detection in New Jersey for years, because of its dependence on “operator influence.” The Alcotest, it said, operates more independently and is more accurate.
As is the norm, opposition to the Alcotest primarily is coming from attorneys who handle drunken-driving cases. Lawyer Evan Levow of Cherry Hill predicted that over time the Alcotest would be judged as wholly inaccurate.
It’s hard to agree with that. The report by retired Judge Michael Patrick King came about after 10 days of hearings and dozens of witnesses. King found that both the hardware and software elements of the Alcotest were sound.
The state’s drunken-driving limit recently was reduced from a blood alcohol content of 0.10 to 0.08.
With a reduced limit in place, it seems imperative that the testing device be as accurate as possible. And we think the Alcotest does that.
JD, THE NEWS IS WRONG, IF YOU EVEN READ THE REPORT SUMMARY AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT JUDGE KING SAID, NOT TO MENTION ALL THE ORIGINAL POINTS THE COURT HAS YET TO RULE ON , INCLUDING BRERATH TEMPERTURE, ELECTROMAGNERFERANCETIC INTERFERANCE…
ECT ECT ECT
However, everythin gthey are fighting for and the passt 3 years of tstimony and hearings and everything, really in my opinion was wrong, is moot scientificaly.
Here is why:
Analytical instruments, millions of them, are validated every year in NJ, there are well known and common everyday prodceduces to validate instruments and methods. – non eof this has taken place.
It is hard to do either, the validation.
Makes one wonder why just a regular , normal, everyday , intrument and method validation is not being done on each and every alcotest.
This is what would satisfy me and everyone, if they knew about what I am talking about.
The entire chun case is a exercise in ignorance as far as I am concerned!, from all parties involved!
if all intrested parties, really , truly, wanted to know if the alcotest works or not, just put the thing through a standardized instrument and method validation as i have described in other various posts on this website.
thats basicaly it, its the answer, and it would be the right thing to do!
the wavelegth that the reading is being taken on is not even calibrated, for god’s sake man, this is really incredibly ignorant!
its suppose to be taken at a certain wavelength of the spectrum, but how do
one of about 15-20 things to do in an instrument /method validation
taking one alcotest instrument, performing method and instrument validation for the first time, would of taken a week! at the most, not 3 years.
from that develope a protocol and train validation engineers that can follow it and do the validation in a day for each alcotest in use.
its not rocket science, lol, its normal every business at merck, schering plough, j and j, squib, you name it baby, in thousands of pharma companies in nj, otc companies
JD, READ THE ACTUAL REPORT AND SUMMARY, YOU CAN FIND IT ON MUNIMAIL WEBSITE….
ALSO UNDERSTAND THERE ARE MANY MAN Y OTHER ISSUES FROM THE FIRST REPORT THAT STILL HAV NOT BEEN RULED ON BY THE JUSTICES.
ANYWAY, I CAN TELL YOU WITH 100 PERCENT CERTAINTY, THAT INSTRUMENT AND METHOD VALIDATION IS ROUTINE EVERYDAY BUSINESS IN 1000′S OF NJ PHARMA/OTC COMPANIES , AND THAT WOULD OF BEEN ALL THAT WAS NEEDED IN THE CHUN ALCOTEST CASE.
SHOULD WE ALLOW PHARMA COMPANIES TO SAY THE INSTRUMENT AND METHOD THEY USED TO TEST AND RELEASE HEART MEDICATION WAS DECIDED ON IN A COURT AND NO VALIDATION WAS DONE?
IT DONT PASS THE LAUGH TEST.
Jim I do not agree with Judge King`s decision .
King’s 108-page report yesterday said the Alcotest was more accurate than the Breathalyzer and not subject to operator influence. King noted minor defects in the Alcotest computer program, but they “did not change our opinion on the reliability and trustworthyness of the instrument but reinforced our initial view.”
I read multiple articles in the newspaper and on the internet and Judge King`s explaination sounds spurious. So what if the Alcotest 7110 has Auto Pilot, if the source code, software or hardware is flawed that means operator errors are irrelevant and he is admitting that the old breathalyzer machine probably misconvicted a lot of people. Two wrongs don`t make a right. Judge King also mentioned about making new adjustments, well then he is admiiting there were current problems and if that is the case then the people who got dui charges with this machine as it was should be aquitted. I think Judge King is afraid to step up to the plate due to a conflict of interest such as MADD, political pressure, major lawsuits which could bankrupt New Jersey and Draeger, major court back logs. I have been waiting to find out how fair our court system is and now I have found out. Nobody wants to say ( we were wrong ) and they never will. This judge turned his back on the truth and is being obtuse. Judge King is basically calling the Base One experts liars or he is trying to say they are not good at their job and do not know what they are talking about. If this machine is bad from the start then operator influence and/or Auto pilot is totally irrelevant. I am also wondering about kick backs. I hope other testing companies and professionals look into the evidence and come forward and speak up because this is a whitewash. DUI is a serious charge and I can`t believe Judge King said (Minor Defects) no defects are minor ! Minor Defects are also known as reasonable doubt ! Two bad machines do not make a good machine. If both machines are bad and they are then tell it like is. Judge King also said Draeger`s experts were more compelling ? Pass the bread, now you get the baloney !
JD,
I even take it one step further than what you say, however, its a step that could go in either direction.
The Chun dfense team is just as afraid of my step as the State and Courts are.
I am saying to take the step to properly validate the instrument and method. Validaition that is done on every instrument and every method that is used to manufacture drugs and over the counter products in NJ, and distributors.
It is not hard to do for trained people in this field of validation engineering. It is so commonplace it is beyond belif it hasnt been done.
That being said, if the Alcotest passes this validation, there can be no defense against it,.. and this is ewhy the Chun Defense team have not faught for this….. the last thing they want is a breath testing device thatis impossible to disporove on a case to case basis.
Also, the SAtate is afraid of this validation because of it shows the instryument and or method do not comply with general and specific CFR/FDA / scientific industry guidelines, then the Alcotest would be out.
MR Levow explained it to me as a catch 22.
As a citizen though, i really do not care what the Chun defense team thinks or what theh State or Judge King thinks.
The truth should be saught, the Alcotest , each and every one in use, should be validated, and let the chips fall where they may.
YOU know, just because the one piece of software was checked and tested by two independant cpmpanies,in no way reflects on the software that was in the actual instrument i was tested on.
There are no controls to ensure the software in the alcotest i was tested on is OK., OR IS EVEN THE SAME LINE FOR LINE.
BUT MORE SIMPLY, I AM INTRESTED IN THE CALCULATION,,, each alcotest should have a program in it, a vaklidation program, that sends a stored predetermined signal respone through the software, and see if it comes up with the right final answer.
Agilent has this on their HPLC1100.
IT TAKES THE AGILENT VALIDATION ENGINEER ABOUT 10 MINUTES TO VALIDATE THIS PART OF THE SOFTWARE IN AN INDIVIDUAL INSTRUMENT.
THIS IS JUST ONE OF MAYBE 15-0 THINGS THAT WOULD BE PERFORMED IN AN INSTRUMENT VALIDATION.
ITS NOT HARD.
PROVE IT WORKS OR PROVE IT DOESNT.
I also believe the Federal Constitutional Case Law requires any scientific instrument and method to be used in a Court of Law, can only be justified if it is accepted by the scientific community, passed common standards….
am i right on this?
If I am right and the US Supreme Court already made this general ruliong, then the Alcotest must go through the validation i have described in detail in many places on this website, and if it passes, then it can be used, if it fails, it cant be used, and if testing is not done, it cant be used.
Validation through testimony is not a proper scientific method and this is why the CHUN case is an exercise in arrogance and ignorance!
The political considerations make no sense at all in this case.
Do we not want to know if the Alcotest can pass typical, common, analytical scientific industry standards?
of course we do, and so should MADD, so should the State, so should everyone….
We can have , fairly easily, a breath testing device that is scientifical reliable, and proven to be by scientific standards,….
why am i the only person that wants this?
we put a man on the moon in the 60′s, and in 2007 we cant build a reliable breath testing device?, it dont mak,e sense.
if the alcotest works, show it works, each one, by the common industry validation stanrds used every in merck, j and j, squib, schering plough, ectectectect…..
i just do not get what the big deal is. courts in nj rake in hundreds of millions of dollars a year, the cost to perform validation on the alcotest would be less than 1000 dollars per instrument, per year.
what is the big deal. why are all parties , the chun defense, and the State, unwilling to ultimately prove the instruments work?
I DONT GET IT, I JUST DONT GET IT.
WE ARE TALKING ABOUT 7 MILLION DOILLARS THE STATE LAID OUT TO DRAGER TO GET THE NUMBER OF ALCOTESTS THEY HAVE, ITS A DROP IN THE BUCKET COMPARED TO EVEN ONE WEEKS OF REVENUE THROUGH MUNICIPAL COURTS.
THE MONEY DOESNT SEEM LIKE IT SHOULD BE ANY ISSUE AT ALL.
Here is an evereyday common occurance in NJ…
The FDA walks up to the front door of a pharma company, says they are here for a general audit….
They ask for and are handed the manufacturing records for a certain time period., from this list they pick out a few or sevral batches of products, and trace them form origin, through batch records, through testing (quality assurance and quality control, packaging, and distribution.
The labs are of highintrest to the FDA, and will ask to see data to support the releases of the drugs. The FDA inspector will also walk through the labs and check to see if each instrument has a validation sticker.
No w, let me digress minute. These Pharama and OTC compainies, the people in charge of the labs and the chemists in them, take great prode in their work and work very hard to insure all FFDA requirements are met, including industry standard instrument validaton and method validation. It is what they do, and they do it well. It is their number one concern, and they put every ounce of effort into meeting the standards, i assure you of that!
Getting back to thre FDA Audit. Now they arer walking through the lab, they can ask to see instrument validation data, notebooks, ectectect, ANd the company must have them with all the data to prove the instrument works and is validated. And the FDA can and will ask for specific batch testing data as well as a copy of the method validation. The companies must have all of this, … if anyhting is missing they will stay longer and dig depper.
A few years ago in NJ we saw the FDA padlock the doors of Abke Laboratories, in Cranbury and piscataway area, because they failed to have the data.
Companies can not tell the FDA , well, we ay it works and that should be good enough., its not how the sceintific community works and accepts instruments and methods.
Definite protocols need to be followed and emperical data preseverd in hard copy form, and electronic form, and it must pass!
Now, this being the general scientific community standard for instrument and method validation, there is no valid cause at this time for anyone to say the Alcotestr is reliable, under the US Supreme COurt ruling!
It is that simple.
Why am I the only one that sees this??????
When you use the phrase, “in NJ, YOU ARE TALKING , NO DOUBT, (IN REGARDS TO ANALYTICAL INSTRUMENTS), FDA AND TO A LESSER EXTENT EPA STANDARDS.
There is no way the alcotest can meet the “generally acceptable scientic COMMUNITY standards”, in NJ
…. without the proper accepted validation performed
In my opinion, the Sachs protocol which came out the the first set of hearings by Judge King’s Court, was a mistake on the part of the Chun defense team.
What it did was lossen the binds on the NJ Supreme COurt with regards to the US Supreme COurt general ruling about scientific instruments.
Although it is still challangleable by any defendant (albiet with money).
The fact is, as i said above today, the CHun defense team felt it was a catch 22, and they blinked.
They should have faught for what I am talking about, and if lose, take it to the US Supreme Court, this all could have been done a year ago!
(or even years ago)
It is going to the US Supreme Court anyway, and I am sure the US Supreme COurt is going to ask MR Levow why did he sign off on the Sachs Protocol, the adendum, in the NJ hearings, in the first place.
It was definitivley a huge mistake in this case, and one that makes informed citizens raise their eyebrows as to the legitimancy of the CHun Defense team.
The Sachs protocol protects no one excpet the lawyers. It does not protect the citizens of NJ\.
Someone should start a suit immediately over this issue.
What real right does this group of attorneys have to handcuff the citizens of NJ to a protocol without legidslation or referendum!
What he Chun defense team was not right in this case, and that is why my former attorney is no longer my attorney. Serious philosphical differences!
Do you understand what I am saying?
I am saying, use the most basic (and minimum even) scientific analytical industry standards , that are in NJ, to validate the Alcotest. In NJ this means FDA and EPA guidlines, because that is what is most commonly accepted in NJ for analytical instruments.
I believe the Law is clear on this!
I believe my fears that the CHun defense team is in with the State and Courts to have the Alcotest approved without accepted scientific community standards, is warranted.
All they want is some controls on the Alcotest that can be challanged on a case to case basis, but they do not want to know if the Alcotest actualy works or if it meets accepted scientific community standards.
becuaes if they had this, and it was waccpeted, there would be little to challange on a case by case basis!
But this is not what the US Supreme Court said should happen in regards to scientific data!
So, fo rthe defense team in Chun to agree to , and even draft such a protocol , as the Sach’;s protocol, raises one’s eyeborws as to the validity of this whole litigation!
Why should I be tied to this nonsense!
Mr. Saile,
What happened to your updates? I was looking to you to keep on top of this situation.
Thanks!
Beth, there are no real updates. All of us defendats are getting screwed over by all parties. We are getting screwed by the State, on the Chun case level as well as on the municipal level, we are getting screwed over the courts on the Supreme court level and the municipal level, and we are getting screwed over by defensde attorneys on the Supreme Court levewl as well as the municipal level. And we are also getting screwed over by the press, who refuses as an industry to report or investigate anything about the Chun case and the Alcotest.
The fact is, many of my rights have been violated as an individual defendant, and i am sure i am not the only one.